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Aikidoboy
Old Hand
13 Posts |
 Posted - 01/01/2007 : 22:09:04
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Here a question more for a friend than me. Does anyone see the relationship between dance and the martial arts.
I understand that there could be some relationship in the movement but is that where the relationship ends.
remember K.I.S.S
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thekeeper
Waffler Extraordinaire
55 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2007 : 00:30:10
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I may as well start this one of. I don't know that much about dance. What i do i a night club isn't dancing. But i can definately see a relationship between dance and martial arts. Strip all the philosophy out of martial arts and all it is it a dance. People learning to move thier body's in certain ways. Learning dance is definately a good way to improve your taijutsu. You can always tell when a new person has done dance before and its extremely frustrating to see how well they move (frustrating for me as they do easily what took me years).
I do think that there is a good connection. I'm going to skip over to music in general tho as i have much more experience with music. I've always thought that the closest approximation to the mindset i get during a sparing/grappling session is that of when playing the clarinet. You have to stop taking control of your body and trust that it knows what to do. any musician will be able to relate to when they are sight reading a peice they don't think about the individual notes but the peice as a whole. Ask a dancer for an equivilant (NOT YOU MATT!!!!!! )
anyone else got anything to add whilst adams slow moving mind trys to catch up with what he's trying to say?
If you must, strike your blow only as a matter of necessity, not from a wish of mastery. |
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Oni
Old Hand
20 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2007 : 08:30:15
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There is a definate connection between the Martial Arts & Dance just look at Bruce Lee ,he was the Hong Kong Champion Ballroom dancer before he made it big on the 'Silver Screen' and Hatsumi Soke is known to partake in Ballroom dancing.
There as been talk about going to the gym/swimming pool as a group but maybe we should think about going to some tea dances instead!!
It might be an excellent opportunity for the singletons to get together with some golden oldies.
Right back on point ,the fact is if you break down any physical movement and practice them you are going to improve no matter what physical activity you do it is all about being able to 'control' the parts of your body in a concerted way.(Queenie & Alex no rude comments please,i've just re-read what i have written).
On another note i do notice when instructing people to drive who have danced to a high level as they are able to grasp the rudiments of controlling the vehicle quite quickly,just a personal observation.
Never talk about your knowledge as you could lose it,
Confront a defeat with a smile even if you are closely facing it,
and when you are looking into death's eyes,die laughing !!
Toda Shinryuken
32nd Soke Togakure Ryu Ninpo |
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Cannon_Fodder
Not so Fiendish Admin
106 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2007 : 14:09:39
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People who dance understand their body's better as in "if I put my foot there my balance is distributed here" just normally they do it subconsciously.
Similarly looking at it at its most basic martial arts is movement based on a rhythm based on the "fight" scenario, either you or the other dictating the pace/tempo/etc. As a generalised concept dance is that the rhythm and movement are dictated by the music.
It can make for interesting training if you play music in the background particularly if it goes through different styles!
The only thing that is constant is body movement, your taijutsu, and it is dictated by what you do mostly, so there is footballer taijutsu, I have seen footballers do excellent ukemi and kaiten, and they also have good flow at times, so how does this differ to dance or martial arts, what of office taijutsu or bar staff taijutsu!
What I'm trying to say is you can see these things in all art forms, movement is that just movement, and well the relationship with martial arts and dance is the same as it relationship with culture and social conditioning.
Surprised no one piped up with capoiera!
As for the second point, where relationships end is up to you is it merely a shallow and superficial relationship or deep and meaningful leading to the dreaded M word (yes I meant MORTGAGE!)
Sorry that was a bit rambly!
Best way to find out would be dance classes and see whether your martial arts experience helps or hinders your dancing!
Salsa Anybody?
And Adam I'm hurt at your implications that I can't dance, I know I can't dance, but everybody seems obsessed with it!
I like the analogy of sight reading music, or improvising jazz, it is the feeling/spirit/knack that comes across and nothing else!
Matt
Don't speak unless you can improve on the silence - Spanish Proverb |
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Jo M
Newbie
9 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2007 : 18:20:26
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Right... I have far more experience with dance than I do with the martial arts, so maybe a bit of a different perspective on this?
I think a huge part of the relationship is to do with mindset. I know people who study karate/tai chi/other things involving forms or katas describe feeling similar to how I used to feel when dancing, thinking it's also similar to the feeling higher level people in the bujinkan naturally incorporate into their movement...a form of moving meditation.
Dance, like many (all) traditional martial arts, also has the sense of discipline and personal journey. The role of the teacher/student relationship is very similar to that in the martial arts.
Dance has the capacity to affect your entire life in a similar way to the martial arts. There is a culture surrounding dance that affects daily activities, what you eat, drink, how you live your life... It brings with it it's own set of politics...who you dance with, where you dance, which system you graded with...
And then of course, there's the physical aspects of it. High level dance requires discipline to reach the level of fitness required to keep up a constant mixture of aerobic and anaerobic activity, often for hours at a time, and then extending this so with the nerves of a performance stealing valuable energy, you can still perform at your best until the final curtain. Dancers know as much about pain as martial artists - you try walking on your toes for lesson after lesson... I have memories of taping up toes with zinc tape and anything else to prevent blood staining the pretty pink satin shoes!!! And of course, you can guarrantee developing cramp or a migraine on stage and having to 'dance through it'!
But back to the point of the original post...
In some ways it can help on a physical level. It teaches timing, coordination, helps your body know where it is in relation to itself and emphasises physical flexibility and core strength. Cheerleading is a form of dance and teaches tumbling and falling...basically advanced ukemi and gymnastics...to a far higher level than we will ever learn. Partner dancing obviously adds in the element of not only controlling your own body but also of being aware of an other's. Ballet teaches set positions, but you would never use a single position on it's on, rather move between them, creating a seamless sequence in which the positions are only snapshopts in time (seem familiar to anyone??).
There are differences... dance is meant to be aethetically pleasing whereas martial arts were designed for a more practical situation. Yet in the past year, I can't help noticing similarities between these 2 qualities - what looks appealing may look so as it is a strong position... Using the natural lines of balance in the body is vital in both arts! You don't really want to fall over in training (well, most of the time, anyway!) and falling over on stage is equally frowned upon...
On a final point, there is also the fact that on some level one may hinder the other's development. I'm so used to looking after my body in a certain way and avoiding what is considered "bad habits" in my dance that I struggle with certain body alignments in training (ankles and knees in particular). I also think it makes me look at movement differently and maybe this can make it harder for me to pick up on techniques that are rarely as linear as in dance. And some of the movement feels very unnatural (particularly in staying on a lower level) after years of springing back to upright again after bending knees!
Think I beat Matt for rambling......... :)
Jo
"I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat or a prostitute." |
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Owen
Old Hand
22 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2007 : 19:04:35
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Okay, here's my take on some of what's been said here. Unfortunately I don't know anything about dance, but I can relate to some of the musical analogies posed.
Exploring the sight-reading analogy briefly: The key to good sight-reading is an understanding of how the music is constructed. Of course, the player must be technically capable, but without understanding the harmonic structure, there is a danger of just producing a string of related chords and notes without any musical inclination (or "flow"). This understanding can only come through practice and study. In time, the good player will find that they know instinctively where the music is going and what the composer wanted. Ask any decent church organist and they'll almost certainly be able to churn out pseudo-Bach ad infinitum (very frustrating for us lesser beings!  ).
Another example: Ask an arts student to give a lecture on quantum mechanics. The lecture could be interesting and informative, with perfect delivery. However, when it comes to a Q and A session at the end, then it may break down. The lecturer was technically an excellent speaker, but lacked the fundamental knowledge to truly understand the subject.
What I'm trying to say is that I think practice and understanding kamae is the key to good movement (hopefully, otherwise I'm screwed!). 
Owen
"It's true hard work never killed anybody, but I figure, why take the chance?" - Ronald Reagan |
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training and dance
