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splinter
Old Hand
19 Posts |
 Posted - 26/05/2008 : 10:49:50
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Let's look at some deep training insights, that may be mine, or may not!?
There are many different forms of violence and nonviolence, but you cannot distinguish them both from external factors alone.
If the motivation is negative, the action produced is, in the deeper sense, violent, even if it may appear to be smooth and gentle.
But if your motivation is sincere and done with a positive feeling, but the circumstances require the use of harsh/violent behavior, then in essence you are them practicing nonviolence.
No matter what the case may be, if done with a compassionate concern for others, not simply for yourself, then this is the justification for the use of violence/ force.
Okay a deep one no?, this does not only come down to the taijutsu, but the mind too.
Got you thinking? Then come on reply!
ksthomas
Find Serenity these holidays ... or Firefly!
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Jo M
Newbie
9 Posts |
Posted - 26/05/2008 : 21:19:17
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Good to here from you Karle, these forums have been silent for far too long!
Hmm, this issue of non-violence has been, well, if not troubling me, then at least playing on my mind for a while now.
Can you belive in the right to protect yourself, your body, your family, if you belive in non-violence? Karle suggests that the two are compatable, at least within this particular art...As I noticed with Ninpo, a lot of what is done is designed to work with whatever attack someone is providing... it just does not work unless you are being attacked! Perhaps that's a lot of the appeal with it, I think it was for me at any rate.
I've had the great fortune to study a little NVDA (nonviolent direct action), and the methods some protesters employ to gain publicity without losing public sympathy through violence, and through it, have discussed some of the philosophy surrounding this powerful tool.
In fact (at least in this setting) non violence is not largely seen as merely the absence of violence. It is seen as an alternative to both violent acts and no act at all. It can include things like hunger strikes, boycotts, road blocks, sit ins etc, even small acts such as letter writing to decision makers. It is often self suffering for a greater cause, and is a powerful tool for changing attitudes and behaviours.
You mention the role of the mind. Interesting...
A violent attitude plays out in every area of life, words can be as violent as actions, as intent on causing harm, fear, pain... A nonviolent attitude is described as not only not hurting a man, but also refusing to hate him. Intriguing stuff, in my opinion, and I'd be very interested to know how others feel on this more psychological aspect of 'violence'.
Anyway, enough rambling from me for today
Jo
"I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat or a prostitute." |
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splinter
Old Hand
19 Posts |
 Posted - 27/05/2008 : 15:55:40
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Hi Jo, good to here from you too. Hope you are doing well.
This NVDA sounds interesting, did you study it on a course, or was it part of your studies?
I see that Jo also understands the deeper side too, with dealing with the use of words to hurt, or leave a psychological scar.
So come on how about the rest of you , what are your thoughts/ feelings on the subject, or do you have a story of your own that deals with the subject matter?
Coops if you are out there I would like to hear your idea's on my postings.
ksthomas
Find Serenity these holidays ... or Firefly! |
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Coops
Old Hand
20 Posts |
Posted - 27/05/2008 : 16:20:55
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I may be seeing this as to pragmatic a thing and maybe it's my background that makes me see it this way, but as I see it, if you are rightious in your use of force - you are trying to stop something wrong and probably criminal, then your use of a physical technique, whatever it is, is just as I said - a Use of Force.
If you are wrong in your intention or motives, then any physical thing you do isn't what we term a 'Use of Force' is is an assault and there by criminal in nature and against the greater good of the community.
An appropriate Use of Force is as right as a demonstrator using pacive means to protest against something he or she sees as against the greater good. I know the security or cops might come along and remove the protestors, but that doesn't mean what they were doing was wrong (criminal).
Another thing worth considering is that violence is really the most extreme end of communication. Be it a violent domestic between two partners, or a street thug stealing your purse, the threat and intimidation is simply a way of manipulating the victim. Due to a high emotive state, sometimes the violence results in serious injury or even death.
Gone on too long, sorry.
Coops |
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stephenk
Newbie
5 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2008 : 12:03:37
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To me this is a question of kamae. If you have good kamae in your life, with no openings, then others will be required to create openings within themselves in order to harm you (or those 'within your larger kamae').
Because you remain in a position of safety and they are, themselves, moving to a position of increasing danger eventually they may cause harm to themselves.
I used to think arguments like this were just clever semantics, however, I've found through the actual physical training of taijutsu that this pattern shows itself over and over.
If I think of movement as attack-defend-counter I'll have to be very physically fast in order to stay ahead and control the tactial space (in essence, I've allowed him to 'pick the game'). If, instead, I force him to commit to more and more dangerous attacks, hopefully by maintaining safety while leading his next move, eventually he'll cook himself.
This is like biken-jutsu where we place the blade on the opponent but do not cut. We allow them to cut themselves.
At least these are my current deranged rantings..
Thanks for letting me spam my seminar announcements! |
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philosophy 1.1/ insights
